What is Leadership? What does it Tell Us? How did you become a stem cell biologist? A case study of Fiona Watt
So you know, there isn’t one common agreed definition of leadership. Everyone has their perspective, everyone has their models. They are some form of person that you can get others to do what you want because of their skills, charisma, or ideas.
I try to find out what these people think leadership is, how they got to these positions that they’re in, where they learnt their skills, and what they think of the scientific leadership we have today.
Fiona Watt is a British stem cell biologist. Her work has focused on regeneration of cells. Throughout her career, Fiona has held many positions of leadership, including being appointed as the first female executive chair of the Medical Research Council in the UK in 2018.
The Medical Research Council is a national funding body that funds research at the forefront of medical science for non-UK Listeners.
What does it take to become a scientist? A conversation with Fiona and the director of the European Life Sciences Association (EMBO)
The European organization EMBO has a new director, Fiona, who took the post early in the next decade. EMBO is a not for profit organization based in Germany that is devoted to excellence in the life sciences.
Funded by membership from 30 countries, it publishes journals and awards grants to encourage mobility for its researchers.
In this conversation, Fiona, and I talk about some of her different leadership roles. And she shares with us a little bit about what it’s like being the director of EMBO.
I was very interested in how you could improve the conditions for younger scientists after working in a research institute. I became involved with leadership roles in academia because of that.
The answer is no. I think some people take a job because of their status. And some people take a job because of what they want to do. That’s probably true in all walks of life.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00348-y
How did you become a leader? What have you learned in your PhD? Where do you think you are today? What do you want to do?
I moved to King’s College London a decade ago. One of the greatest attractions of that job was the ability to design space for research to be conducted.
The centre I set up was where I stepped down from. But when I think about what has made it a happy place to work for me, part of the answer is the physical space. I don’t think scientists think about that often.
They might think about a nice atrium. I believe the physical space is important, and I have worked in places where interactions between different groups were better or worse.
And I think PhD students are not perceived to be a leader. You can take responsibility for a project. It could be an art collaboration.
If they’re a thought leader, they will influence others by their writing and speaking. The public face of the organization is important if it is an organization such as EMBO.
Where did you learn to become a leader? Did it just learn by doing? Or did you take courses? Or did you have a mentor? Or did you see people who were doing a fantastic job and thought: “Yes, I want to lead like they do.”
How am I going to do it? A lecture on the EMBO Lab Management Course for young people at the cusp of independence and other women scientists
You know, when I was starting out, there were very few women scientists. Most of the support I got came from women scientists based in the US, because of what I do.
But I felt that I had no training. Because of that experience, I felt like I could do what I wanted in my career. And how am I going to do it?”
I think so. If you are observing people, you can pick up things you like, or you would do it differently, because I know a lot of people.
But I would say it’s completely different now. And one of the things that EMBO has run for many years is a lab management course, which is targeted at scientists just at the cusp of independence.
Helping those young people who have been through my lab and have done that course is more valuable than me because they are in a trusting environment, which is something that I wouldn’t be able to do.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00348-y
What do you think leadership should look like? A survey of the top 10 scientific research leaders in the U.S. based on feedback from participants in astrophysics and chemistry
I don’t know if you have done leadership style, questionnaires, or anything like that throughout your career. Do you have a style that suits you? Does it have a singular name? How do you see yourself as a leader?
I think it’s important that people are not frightened to tell you when you’re wrong. In a scientific context, you have to be respectful of the younger scientists in your care.
I think we have to understand how all of this will work. Can the creativity and independence of scientists be ensured?
So you’ve talked a little bit about about your leadership style, and what you think sort of makes good leadership. What do you think bad leadership looks like?
I don’t like it when someone is in a leadership role that is only used for themselves and not doing anything for the organization.
You know, you can do it, do the experiment, you can realize afterwards that this was not done correctly or the numbers are wrong, or the interpretation is wrong.
What are the role of the leaders in science? How did you decide what decisions you had to make in your research? A survey of the EMBO experiment at King’s
So you have seen science at its very highest level. And you have worked with people at the very highest levels of science, who are the decision makers, often, whether it comes to funding or policy, or strategies for direction of research and training and all of those things. Do you think that science and the scientific endeavour is served well, by its leaders?
If we are talking about Germany, for example, I would like to believe that the decisions about how the money should be spent should be made by science leaders, not by the government.
One thing I’m planning to do at EMBO is to get a group of people who are trusted in different countries to join me, so that we can be better at advising governments.
Okay, so we’ve already touched on this a little bit when we talked about your career and how you took on more and more leadership positions, and I guess, more leadership positions with more responsibility as you move through your career.
But obviously, that starts when you’re, when you’re an early career researcher, and you said yourself, sometimes you can be a leader without having a giant group of people to be to be leading.
It can be frightening, but it is also really refreshing. To return to your question. I would start with PhD students at the beginning.
I had…so I moved to King’s 10 years ago to set up the research centre there, I was completely taken by surprise when I was appointed as Executive Chair of the MRC. That was in 2018.
As my next set of experiments, I created a company which would provide a vehicle to do safety studies in humans, so they wouldn’t be compatible with the MRC.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00348-y
How have we changed, what has been important to us at EMBO, and what have wen’t? What have we missed?
So when EMBO called, what was not to like? I was back in a world class research institute, which was superb, and it was International, which is focused on young scientists, and about sharing data.
It’s a really nice organization. We are constantly looking at the tasks that we are responsible for to make sure that we are doing them as well as possible.
The effect on our interns has also been felt. We have been able to give extensions to postdocs with the help of money.
And so we moved quite quickly to establish a list where scientists anywhere in the world could offer support for scientists who are displaced from Ukraine. As a leader of an organization like that, that has been an important task to make IT strategy decisions.
But on the other hand, part of that responsibility is taking a look and saying, are we doing this as well as we can. Are there things that we did 10 years ago, which aren’t so important?
To give you an idea of how we publish journals, we published a number of journals. We have to think about a future where all of our journals are open access.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00348-y
What Would You Like to Know About Working Scientists? An Introductory Report on “The Nature Careers Podcast,” by Dr. Judy Gould
We consult a lot. All of our staff are reaching out for help, but that doesn’t mean we just tally the votes and say, “Oh we’ll do that.” It does require an element of direction.
Working Scientist explores different aspects of a working scientists life, and it is a show for scientists in science. From funding to communication, from team building to mentoring, and pretty much everything in between.
It goes to you for listening as well. Every single listen means a lot to our team here at Nature Careers as we strive to share stories and advice that will ultimately help you navigate your career as a working scientist.
So if you found this episode or any of our other episodes useful, interesting or just enjoyable, then please leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, but also take the opportunity to let us know what you would like to hear on this show.
This podcast is ultimately created for you so we would like to know what you would like to know. Alright, that’s it. Thanks for listening. I’m Judy Gould.
Communication in Higher Education: The ORPHEUS Meeting in Istanbul 2022 – A Network for Research Faculty Development in the European System –
I traveled to Istanbul in May of 2022 for the ORpheUS meeting. ORPHEUS, or The Organization for PhD Education in Biomedicine and Health Sciences in the European System, is focused on supporting research faculties and departments with their developing graduate schools.
The meeting was about training environments for academics in Europe and several universities shared their experiences and ideas.
I sat down with theOutgoing president of the organization, Robert Harris, because I was invited to speak about mentorship for graduate researchers.
Robert is an academic vice president of PhD education and head of the international advisory council, as well as working with ORPHEUS.
I’ve looked at leaders who have been very efficient in their communication and studied how good they are at it. And to learn how they were successful.
And that was just like, such a wonderful thing to learn that that’s where it came from. Because it’s really like, you know, keep it simple. And so I learned a valuable lesson in communicating as a leader. It should be simple. And don’t make your language complicated.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00417-2
The Science of Hitler, Stalin, and David Marquet: What is the role of a scientific leader? What does he think?
I’ve studied Hitler and Stalin, reading a book about the dictatorships that they had, which is very much the impact of those dicatatorships, and lot of about their leadership.
Hitler prepared himself before his speeches. He was very theatrical. He used many body movements, shaking his hands and training how to do them the best he could. The implication was that his ideas could cause a domino effect, which was not necessarily a good one.
When we were speaking, there was a lot of background noise. So I wanted to tell you a little bit about something Bob said.
And one of the most impactful interviews for him was with the ex-Navy Captain David Marquet, who was put in charge of, at the time, the worst performing submarine in the American Navy.
And it’s empowering leadership, and getting people at every single level to buy into what they’re doing and feel that they own the decisions at that level.
The administrators are in charge of coordinating, they get lots of space to actually show themselves. I don’t need to be the one presenting everything, talking all the time.
I let other people do it. I make sure everything is going in the right way. Being like a puppet master though you can’t see the work, but you are guiding. Asking the right questions and making suggestions can be done by yourself, instead of being ordered.
When something bad happens you need to act, and you need to come in and make decisions if necessary, but it’s not saying that you can’t do that as a leader.
There is no easy answer to the question because it depends on who, where, and what. A university leader who is not interested in education is not a good leader of a university.
A research institute leader who doesn’t want to push for research is not the right person to lead there. It is very much context- dependent.
Are we being led by leaders outside of organizations? A leader in the scientific field will say, “Well, we need to change our way of thinking.” So the direction of where research is going, I think scientific leaders should actually have visions of where they think the next big thing is going to happen.
And now with the advent of artificial intelligence, and, you know, you can’t… you can’t say that’s not an area that we have to consider. If you are not expert in that area, then it isn’t something you need to be. That is where the leaders of the scientific community could say that they think they can be competitive. I think that’s where our competencies are.”
What is the nature of our organization? And that’s what a scientific leader can do. It should always be development if you make sure that they are leading it. And to try and be visionary there.
But how do you know they were a leader? Do you know if they were real? If you want to answer the question with “They had a vision and they were committed to it and they wanted to see it come to fruition”, then I don’t think that’s right.
The associate professor of organizational behaviour at the French campus of INSEAD Business School thinks that this is something that people would answer when they were in the presence of a real leader.
I felt really accepted for who I was. I felt like I was challenged to be more than I thought I could be. Maybe you had a mentor who made you feel like that.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00417-2
What Is Happening When I Meet a Leader? An Example of How Leaders and Artists Can Get Their Motivations and Successes Revisited
But then when you ask people “Tell me about a leader you actually met.” They usually do not say, “Oh, this person is a visionary” or “I am really impressed with the leader of this strategy.”
They said, “Oh, I felt when this person was in the room.” I felt something. I suddenly started feeling calm, or clear, or cared for. And then I wanted to do something.”
Leadership comes to mind, when we experience it. In the double sense of the word, it is a relationship in which we are moved emotionally but also moved to do something. If you’re moved by something, you’re a wonderful artist. If you, you know, just move me physically, you’re a bus.
If a story stops moving you, you lose motivation. If a story stops moving others you lose followers. And if a story stops moving from idea to reality, you lose results.
And I don’t know about you, but I think if you don’t have motivation, if you don’t have followers, and if you don’t show some results, it’s really hard to lead in the long run.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00417-2
How Would You Like to Lead a Project? What Do You Think? Share Your Thoughts on “The Secrets of the Art of Leadership”
It’s a kind of love for a group of people that you’re trying to protect, or you’re trying to expand or advance. It’s ultimately a kind of love for a certain future that you are committed to try to help realize.
And it’s not enough for you to just say it. You also have to show it. See, there’s this view in some corner of the leadership literature, that leadership is storytelling, and I fundamentally disagree.
What do you think would be most useful for your career? So if you’ve got a minute, please could you take the time to leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. We would be happy to hear from you.